A 150-year-old parish church may be put up for sale because repairs and maintenance cost too much.
And according to the Victorian Society magazine, church leaders even considered turning the grade II* listed St Martin’s, in Lewes Road, Brighton, into a climbing centre.
In the article, the society’s church conservation officer, James Hughes, expressed concern that creating a climbing centre would require removing the decorated Sussex marble font.
It would also involve building mezzanine floors and a side extension.
Mr Hughes said: “Such a conversion would clearly cause massive harm to the special interest of the building.
“We have indicated our intention to object in the strongest terms and urged the parish and the diocese to explore all opportunities for the building to remain in ecclesiastical use, including in some form of dual use.”
The font is inlaid with semi-precious stones brought back from India, Italy and Egypt by the Reverend Henry Michell Wagner, one of Brighton’s longest-serving vicars and a church builder.
The Diocese of Chichester said that the congregation at St Martin’s could be attending a new place of worship if the ambitious plan comes to pass.
The diocese said that the high cost of repairing and maintaining the interior had become increasingly challenging, raising questions about the building’s sustainability.
The vicar, Father Trevor Buxton, and the current Parochial Church Council (PCC) have worked together to find ways to secure the church’s future and continue serving the parish community.
He said: “The future of the church’s viability has been of concern for some years and before the pandemic a competition was organised by Better Brighton to investigate possible dual usage.
“It helped the PCC to consider other ways to use the existing church which would protect the building and its very special interior as a heritage asset.
“They were excited about the opportunities that selling the church building offered.
“The funds could be earmarked for a new church in our current church hall and at the same time, help to protect a valuable and beautiful building for future generations to admire.
“It is early days and there is much to think about as well as a consultation before any decisions can be made.
“We have a strong relationship with the local Church of England primary school, St Martin’s, and the governing body are aware and supportive of our plans.
“Once we get some expressions of interest then there are due processes to follow which will include consulting with the interested parties such as the Victorian Society.”
Brighton and Hove City Council said that it had not received any planning applications relating to the church.
It would be both a tragedy and a travesty if this magnificent church ceased to be used for worship. It is as precious a part of our heritage as S.Bartholomew’s, S.Paul’s West St, and S.Michael and All Angels
Ooo… Look who got a thesaurus for their birthday!
They should replace the cross with the £ sign!
That’s all the British worship now!
God has no place in British society anymore!
And the British people don’t care who they have to step on to get those £’s, even if it’s the money the poor, the sick and the disabled need to live on to survive! They need the poor, the sick and the disabled to demonise because the Conservative Party fed them their hate into thinking the poor, the sick and disabled are evil scroungers!
If it’s not this group, then it’s asylum seekers who are just as evil!
They don’t care if people less fortunate starve to death or commit suicide! Just as long as it affects others, the untermenschen…………… and not them!
We’ve allowed the Conservative Party to turn us into a nation of vultures!
And I want out from this wretched country!
But as being poor, I’m trapped here!!!
The C of E is one of the wealthiest “charities” in the country, both in terms of assets under control and income, and the source of much of that is dubious at best. “The font is inlaid with semi-precious stones brought back from India, Italy and Egypt” – interesting use of the phrase “brought back”, and not “purchased from”, makes you wonder how the good reverend obtained such jewels….
If the C of E and their parishioners don’t care enough about the church to spend their own wealth to save it, why should the rest of us? Turn it into something useful that benefits the entire community and not just the few.
It is a church a place of worship and what’s the difference in destroying a church and transforming it into an activity centre. A climbing centre can be build or start in another building but church?
This idea won’t be even reach for another religious worshiping place, I bet no because those believers won’t let it happen, but sad to see Christians doesn’t even put an effort to stop this madness ….. then why only a church. So sad to see this is happening.
I thought the people of this church actually were particularly seeking to help those in the community needing help… and lets face it..lots of us do. Thank you church people.
Simon Phillips comment evidently fuelled by his being a left wing worshipper of Onan and a microcephalic ignoramus .
For those who do not understand my comment Google the words you don’t know.
Ooo… Look who got a thesaurus for their birthday!
This would be so good! Only having one climbing centre all the way in portslade is a big shame. In comparison Bristol has about 6 ventres. Boulder Brighton in Portslade is a great place for the community to meet for a climb or a coffee, which is surely a better use of the church than it becoming a wetherspoons, and what God would want.
These arguments are all strained for they are talking about a building made very recently by humans.
I wonder if an omnipotent and omnipresent god would actually feel offence. Perhaps we make our buildings too big and our God too small.
High Sports at the Withdean leisure centre as well. Pretty good but you have to be able to tie in and prove it if you want to climb.
Withdean also have a climbing centre fyi but i agree, another would be great
They can’t do that to that beautiful church my parents christened me there when I was 3 days old that church me a lot to me and my parents and grandparents
Quite like the idea actually.
Good good. More the world abandons religion the better.
That’s exactly what the devil would say. Sad. No one is 100% confident in the absence of God, if Christians turn out to be wrong, then they wouldn’t have lost anything by trying to live a righteous life. However, non-believers have everything to lose if they turn out to be wrong. There’s more harm in not believing than there is in believing. Hell ain’t a place anyone wants to go to, why risk it when you’re not 100% sure that it doesn’t exists?
No-one is 100% sure in the absence of a celestial teapot orbiting the sun either, but at least wars haven’t been started in the name of teapots.
Christians don’t start wars – any wars started by people claiming to be Christians aren’t Christians because that goes against what’s said in the Bible. People who claim to be someone or something that goes against what they’re claiming to be are lying.
You’re quite wrong, and are simply using a “no true Scotsman” fallacy. Just because you don’t like that wars and conflicts have been started in the name of religion, doesn’t make it true. Maybe read a little about this very country of the United Kingdom, and learn about the history of Northern Ireland? Go back a little further to the Protestant Reformation?
Have you actually read the Bible? Specifically the Old Testament. It’s full of stories of a petulant God killing plenty of people. Egging on a father to kill his son, sending a bear to kill children, turning a wife into a pillar of salt for the ‘crime’ of simply looking back, sending a flood to kill not just unbelievers but every living land animal.
You worship from a position of ignorance, in the hope that your petulant God doesn’t turn on you just for His own entertainment.
For some reason there’s no reply button on your latest comment so I’ll just add it here.
I think we can easily state that Christians in the United Kingdom were never very good at being ‘true Christians’ – Christianity came here pretty late, like 400 years after Christ?
Have you read the Bible -specficially the new testament?
The wars in the old testament were Israelites fighting to find land they want, they weren’t fighting for religion, they were fighting against ppl who waged war against them, their battles were never in the name of God, God chose to simply help them because they are his ppl and he didn’t leave them to fight alone. In this current climate you see wars happening all the time for self defense and that isn’t ridiculed. Wars were normal occurrence in ancient times, whether by ppl of religion or not. Obviously things have moved on from since as evident by the new testament that clearly shows fighting isn’t the answer anymore.
You clearly don’t know the Bible if you’re using the example of Abraham – it’s called being tested. We’re often tested in life, this was God’s test, to show that we aren’t meant to make anything of this world our priority. If you know the story, God clearly never intended for the son to be hurt at all. Funny you aren’t choosing any new testament stories. Maybe because there are none. Wow you really don’t know the Bible and it’s deeper meaning huh? Looking back is a sign of someone who wants to continue to live in their sin, someone who longs for it. Such a person is a bad influence on others. The old testament is a perfect example of God’s wrath, however the new testament is a perfect example of the other side of god – his mercy. As you can see now, everyone lives sinfully and yet nothing happens to them, because God is giving them time to change.
Now, pick a story from the new testament, I’m sure you won’t be able to find one.
Please don’t call me ignorant, I’ve been reading the Bible since I was a kid and have always been very inquisitive about it. If anyone lacks the knowledge that’s you, you read the Bible from outside look without trying to understand why anything or everything happened.
Haha. How funny. Same old Religious reeasoning. Such a waste of life.
At least climbing is good for mindfulness and during these tough times we need to be mindful of mindfulness. Climbing better than a pub or flats for druggies I guess
The Victorian Society is a statutory consultee. It’s no surprise they would oppose items being removed that were part of the fabric of the building. That font they are keen on hasn’t been used for years as the mechanism that lifts the font cover is potentially dangerous. It’s all very well preserving old buildings in aspic, but a church is not a museum, it’s a space for worship and celebration by the community it serves. Walking home after the last mass on Christmas Eve you will discover the roundhill area this parish serves to be largely empty. The pubs are empty too. The area is a dormitory for students and young people who have sadly no roots in the area. The schools associated with these churches also struggle because fewer families now live here. It’s very sad to see a community lose out when preferences on new accommodation seem to go to the universities or the many HMO’s in the area. Whilst Brighton has wonderful churches to worship at and that give a lot of people a sense of community; it’s the decline of church attendance the insular nature of modern life and the high maintenance costs of these enormous buildings that make it unsustainable to maintain such a building for the size of the community who use it. Giving the building a new lease of life as a climbing center and for the congregation to move to a more manageable space would be better than allowing the church to become redundant. I wish it wasn’t so, but it really is a case of use it or lose it and unless the Victorian society want to help with maintenance, and making a plan to make it a more sustainable building, they’re not very helpful.
Father brandy will turn in his grave ,My kids were christened there my daughter married and I was confirmed there .This church must be saved. To much history ,for the people of brighton ,
The Church of England has a large endowment of £8.7 billion which generates approximately £1 billion a year in income (2019),[1] this is their largest source of revenue. The 2019 Financial report showed that the size of the endowment has been steady or growing slightly in recent years, delivering a return of 10% (2019). But they plead poverty, they also receive 9 million pounds a year grant from government. Instead of using their incredible wealth to fund repairs they have set up multiple charities to do so.
Attendances are dropping, the congregation is aging and shrinking, and younger people are overwhelming atheist. Perhaps the church should consider spending some of the £1 billion a year income on actual repairs.
This would be positive news for the local community. A climbing centre would be a greater benefit to a greater number of people than a church building.
Urgh. I have no words here. A stupid climbing centre which could go anywhere, desecrating an incredible historic building. No wonder people have no soul these days.
The fact is that, in the l9th century, there were few churches here and the Wagner family, who had the money to do it, built many more, to accommodate the hordes of people who wanted a place of worship back then, hence the many heritage churches we now have. However, the cold reality nowadays, and for some years since, is that the traditional ‘audience’ is no longer there and some of the old churches have fallen into grave disrepair. That is a fact nationwide and one might wish it were otherwise, but it is the reality, unfortunately.
That is not to say that the buildings should be lost. They shouldn’t. It is perfectly possible, given the right people with the right motivation and will, that the interiors could be converted for different uses and the exteriors refurbished. There are many examples, even in B&H, of formerly religious buildings being converted into homes, and there could be something inside or outside, such as a commemorative plaque or more, to acknowledge the place’s past. St Peter’s has had to find a different and worthy use after many years of works and other places need to do something similar if they are to survive.
Personally, I don’t think something like a climbing centre would be the right answer at all – rather, if at all possible, such redundant churches should be converted into accommodation of some kind or used for the sort of projects St Peter’s is doing. After all, they were originally intended as ‘balm for the soul’, if I can put it that way, and compatible uses should be the first consideration for their future – but, please not what would be a presumably commercial venture for climbing or suchlike.
History is not irrelevant here, because the other side to the Wagners’ penchant for building elaborate churches was their effort to improve housing for locals. In much of the early 19th century Brighton and Hove, as separate entities, were just fishing towns with slums and many poor inhabitants. Wretched for the majority, in other words.
I am not remotely religious myself, but, whoever we are or whatever we may be, we do need to recognise what these churches did for the community and preserve them in some form for the good of the community today.
It is a church a place of worship and what’s the difference in destroying a church and transforming it into an activity centre. A climbing centre can be build or start in another building but church?
This idea won’t be even reach for another religious worshiping place, I bet no because those believers won’t let it happen, but sad to see Christians doesn’t even put an effort to stop this madness ….. then why only a church. So sad to see this is happening.
Knock down all churches from 1800 onwards. Keep the really old ones as part of history.
Who cares about buildings only a couple of hundred years old.
Eee – I can’t see a reply button on your comment either.
Posting to thank you, your comments are so interesting. To add, I don’t have a religeon because saw the hypocrisy in my family procaliming to be one thing, and did the opposite of compassion. I do believe in The Divine and Energy. Thank you once again, brilliant.
Meant proclaiming.
Some ideas I had on reading this: perhaps the “font with the semi-precious stones brought back from India and Egypt” could be placed on display to the general public by the Victorian Society as a relic of Empire, of war and as a reminder of our cultural heritage. The rest of the building could become a true community centre with rooms for hire like the Cornerstone Centre in Hove, with its beautiful stained glass windows. Also, the acoustics of the building are bound to be good due to its long use as a church, so music groups like choirs, classical and jazz ensembles could use it for practice and performances.
What can we do to help push through the plans for a climbing centre. Brighton is in desperate need for another climbing centre. There’s a very popular centre in Bristol called ‘the church’ which did a great job of preserving the building and when i used to climb there you can still apreciate the features.
If not a climbing centre could also very likely become flats or retail.
Additionally it’s worth pointing out the social and exercise benefits and enjoyment from both adults and children.
Surely an all living God that people talk about would be much happier seeing this building being used to benefit others.
Where do we start a petition to support this idea?
There are many churches that have been given a new lease of life and bring the community together, without touching the features! As a place of gathering surely a climbing centre will still be doing this and adding into the health and wellbeing of those that visit!
Amazing idea and would love to be involved
Climbing centres are the new churches. They uphold all the same values without the dogma (kind of). I think this is a fantastic new use for the space.
How much is this church at the moment? £?