A gender critical leaflet written by a survivor of sexual abuse was ripped out of the hands of delegates at a council event to discuss violence against women, campaigners say.
The leaflet, which outlined Allison Hooper’s concerns about a lack of same-sex spaces for rape victims in Brighton and Hove, was put on tables at a Re-Imagine Brighton and Hove event hosted by the city council on Monday night.
But when a council officer saw them, she began gathering them up – and even went so far as to snatch them out of at least one attendee’s hands. She and other council officers and councillors described them to other attendees as “offensive” and “transphobic”.
At an event organised by @BrightonHoveCC with the title 'Re-imagine Brighton & Hove' with a focus on 'how we can make Brighton & Hove a safer city for women and girls'
Someone has just gone around the room SNATCHING the following documents from people. #VAWG pic.twitter.com/d7Bji8HRle
— FiLiA (@FiLiA_charity) January 29, 2024
Brighton and Hove News asked the council what specifically was offensive, and received no response to that point. The same views, similarly expressed, have been repeatedly held up by employment tribunals to be “worthy of respect” in recent months and years.
Ms Hooper said “Having booked a ticket for the event, I was unable to attend. The handout was a way I felt my concerns in this area could be discussed. Obviously, those in BHCC don’t want to let women speak.”
One of those who did attend, Bev Barstow, co-founder of PSHE Brighton, said: “I attended to discuss safety and safeguarding of women and girls.
“What ensued was a meeting where I did not feel safe to share my views because of intimidation by councillors acting in an authoritarian way and branding the experiences of women survivors in the city as ‘offensive’ and ‘transphobic’.
“There are no single sex services for survivors of rape and sexual assault in Brighton. At least one school in the city has admitted causing harm to young girls through breast binding.
“It is outrageous that our council are wilfully ignorant to the treatment of girls in schools and shutting down discussion about services women need and want.”
She said some other survivors chose to leave because they’d been made to feel unwelcome, and that there had been no indication before the event started that handing out leaflets was forbidden.
The chair of the council’s Equalities, Community Safety and Human Rights Committee, Councillor Leslie Pumm, said: “Clear ground rules were established at the outset of our VAWG event on Monday night to ensure all participants felt safe to participate and bring their unique lived experiences to the discussion.
“We had productive discussions concerning prevention and holding perpetrators to account.
“We determined that handing out leaflets was disruptive to the meeting and we therefore removed them from the table.”
How can they lament they’re being branded as transphobic when that leaflet is blatantly transphobic? It’s flat out claiming that treating trans-women as women is misogyny – what planet are they living on if they think they can say that and then say they’re not transphobic? Good on that council officer for not tolerating transphobia.
Bigots normally do a much better job than this of trying to dress up their bigotry as not being bigotry. How sad it is that they feel they can be so blatant these days!
There is nothing “transphobic” about a women describing her experience of sexual violence and her difficulties obtaining support to help her with that. What a peculiar thing to say.
It’s transphobia to say that misogyny wins when trans women are treated as women. Trans women are women. Stop using rape victims to attack transphobia, absolutely disgusting of you. Next.
Typing error: I meant to say “to attack trans people”.
There is literally no issue with transmen who as a population exhibit female pattern sexual offending. In fact, this falsification of the conflict is exactly the problem masked by use of the qualifying preposition “trans-” as an adjective. This is about the sex of transwomen, not the fact they are transgender. Do try to describe the situation accurately. & show some respect for transgender people and cease this use of this ghastly street-slang.
Transmen are men, transwomen are women. An attack on transwomen is an attack on the whole trans community. However I suspect your tolerance of transmen is only because you see them as women.
It’s not transphobia to assert that misogyny wins when trans women are treated as women. Trans women are biologically male, and denying this fact undermines the experiences and struggles of real women. Using rape victims to highlight the importance of safe, women-only spaces is not an attack but a necessary discussion. Women have fought hard for their rights and protections, and allowing biological males into these spaces erodes these hard-won gains. Prioritizing the identities of trans women over the safety, privacy, and unique experiences of women is deeply misogynistic and silences the voices of those who need protection the most.
“It’s transphobia to say that misogyny wins when trans women are treated as women. Trans women are women. Stop using rape victims to attack transphobia, absolutely disgusting of you. Next.”
“Trans-” is a qualifying prefix.
“Every teacher a teacher of English & Maths.” Language changes but fundamental changes in grammar don’t.
#transwomen are… #transwomen
male individuals who “gender identify AS” men
(whatever “gender identify AS” actually means, it seems to mean adherence to ‘gender stereotypes’ judged by the DfE to be damaging to children. I don’t understand why they become not damaging when applied to the opposite sex?)
no more and no less.
I don’t feel I need to call them “men”.
I have used #transwoman” no space for 20 years and feel no reason to change.
I have been sympathetic to #transwomen since I first discovered such a thing existed ie 1979/80 & first BBC TV programme on Julia Grant.
Wierdly, despite gender stereotypes in which men come first and women if they are mentioned at all are mentioned 2nd as an after-thought… (male norm-referencing) it is curious that within transgenderism that is the one “gender” stereotype that does NOT seem to apply ie male transwomen come first and transmen if they are mentioned at all, are mentioned 2nd as an after-thought.
The REAL mistake (if I may say so) is our abandonment of English grammar.
“Trans-” is a qualifying preposition, not a noun nor an adjective, language develops but observes the same basic structure.
I refuse to use “trans-” AT ALL
1) As drilled in at Teacher Training: “Every teacher a teacher of English and Maths.”
2) Serious subjects deserve serious grammatical language – not street-slang.
3) “trans-” tends to leave out #Transsexual & #Nonbinary people
Street slang “trans-” is in fact #transphobic.
#Onlywomenarewomen
“transwomen” – NO space
#transwomenaretranswomen
NO IFS & NO BUTS.
We’re talking about what rape survivors need to feel safe. In that situation, to attempt to center ANYONE’s needs but the survivor’s is disgraceful. It’s. About. HER. It. Is. Not. About. You!
Someone who has been abused with a penis may very well want not to deal with people who have penises. She may want to know the birth sex of her counsellor. She may want no penises in her support group. All those things are understandable and Not. About. YOU.
It’s a rape crisis center, not a social circle. Transwomen demanding a “right” to make the people they’re supposed to be serving feel unsafe is narcissistic. Grow some empathy. In that situation, their feelings ARE more important than yours.
Totally agree. Pedestrianise Seven Dials does sound ‘professional’
There is nothing transphobic about asking for the Equality Act to be adhered to. Saying that you can become a woman by identifying with the stereotypes attached by society to women is reinforcing those stereotypes as the basis for our existence. They are not. The only thing that I have in common with women is that I am a human, born with a female body, and survived to adulthood. I do not have that in common with transwomen. There is no “lady brain” and even if transwomen did have a woman’s mind trapped in a man’s body, it is still a man’s body, and they are therefore not women.
You are welcome to have trans-only services; we want woman-only services, and men who claim to be women are, and will always be, men.
Well said. About time ‘old fashioned’ women stood up to these trans bullies.
Trans women are men. Everyone knows this and we won’t stop saying it. If you think that wanting single sex spaces for women and girls is transphobic, you are definitely batting for the misogynists.
Transwomen are men. They are of the male sex. That is a material reality. They are not women but males who identify as trans. Big difference. Given they are of the male sex then it is legal to exclude them from single-sex provision for women. Male violence against women/girls is through the roof with little consequence for perpetrators via the judicial system. That there is no female only refuge provision is to Brighton & Hove CC’s SHAME. It is an absolute disgrace that women when at their most vulnerable and in need of support, cannot depend on finding it within a female only refuge. #LabourLosingWomen
Just say you’re a transphobe, you clearly have no shame about it so just say “I’m transphobic”. I don’t know why admitting that is so hard for transphobes when they’re otherwise so blatant in their prejudice. It’s like a person wearing a klan hood and robes getting angry when someone calls them a racist.
It’s as if you only see men and their needs as worthy of any attention. Women are secondary to the point of being invisible. Amazing.
I think you misunderstand the meaning of phobic versus a difference of opinion on something.
It is so easy to brand a victim of rape as transphobic if you are a man who pretends to be a woman. Only a woman would understand the degradation and humiliation that rape causes and a woman would never brand another woman as transphobic for wanting a male-free space to be cared for by medics.
I suppose you would tell a woman to ‘reframe her trauma’ if she objected to a rape crisis centre being run by a man wearing women’s clothes.
It’s also very degrading to victims of rape to be used as a tool to bash trans people with. This is a classic tool commonly employed by those who wish to marginalise others, be it racists, homophobes, sexists or indeed transphobes. They try to dress up their discrimination as not being discrimination but about some other issue that necessitates their discrimination. For more information, look up dog whistling.
Your comments are weapons grade misogyny. No man can ever be a woman no matter what he chooses to believe about himself. He will never have the least idea of what being a woman actually is. How could he? There is no ‘right’ to compel others to believe in an impossibility. Accusations of ‘transphobia’ make no difference to facts. Name-call all you like. Nobody cares anymore. You’re not on any moral high ground. Those councillors should be investigated for blatant, oppressive discrimination against women.
Not misogynistic in the slightest, you TERFs are the ones attacking women. But I’m glad you’re not denying my claims of transphobia, which is what my original point was, that the distributor of this leaflet is transphobic. The council is anti-transphobia and so the council officer was correct to act as they did.
This whole comment section seems to strongly reinforce that this is indeed transphobic dog whistling and not about women who have been sexually abused given every post from transphobes has been transphobic in other ways too.
You are clearly from the bullying trans lobby. You have nothing but outrage and insulting people and a word salad of ideology and scripted narative….. and a lot of time on your hands!
This bullying of rape survivors politely asserting female specific rape trauma, tells you everything you need to know about “gender identification *as* women but no “gender” identification *with* women. I was a lesbian school teacher on the frontline of Section28 here in funky trendy Brighton & Hove, where I was disciplined for being an out dyke. I spent my whole time having to teach defensively under the assumption that I could be accused of child molestation. So NO this is not bigotry, the simple FACTS, as confirmed by UK govt statistics and yes it is exactly the same as what I used to say under #Section28 (read slowly and carefully):
“The sexual offending of the lesbian and gay population is no more and no less than that of the … rest of the population.”
“The sexual offending of the lesbian and gay population is no more and no less than that of the … rest of the population.”
“The sexual offending of the lesbian and gay population is no more and no less than that of the … rest of the population.”
What we didn’t need to go onto say was:
“The sexual offending of the gay male population is …no less and no more … than the rest of the MALE population.”
“The sexual offending of the lesbian female population is… …no less and no more … than the rest of the MALE population.”
From @GOVUK sexual offending stats 2002-23 including TG sexual offender populations…
The GREAT news is… I can prove the sexual offending of the TG population is…about the same as the rest of the population.
“The sexual offending of the TG male population is …no less and no more … than the rest of the MALE population.”
“The sexual offending of the TG female population is… …no less and no more … than the rest of the MALE population.”
The point is
in a ~98% heterosexual context:
the sexual offending of the MALE population is…most of it
&
the sexual offending of the female population is the exception that proves the male sexual offending rule….
So no that is not a personal accusation (such as I suffered under Section28 – every single working day for 5 years) that is simple an over all look.
The other great news is we CAN compromise… “Transmen ARE men”… the kind of men who dont sexually offend much at all.
This so called transgender rights movement NEVER talks about the plight of transmen who need rape crisis support. I have it on reliable authority that transmen are self-excluding from female support (including abortion support) because they fear causing distress to other female rape survivors… which is NOT the consideration we are getting from transwomen, who blatantly destroy what little recovery space we ever had.
Rape crisis was founded by women for women, as a single sex enterprise at its heart due to the known known of female specific rape trauma…it was populated by women including those who had been raped themselves who wanted it to be better for women & girls who followed. As a lesbian I am proud that included a high proportion of lesbians – female and homosexual for the avoidance of any doubt.
It is so easy to brand women who have been raped as “victim”, which is the legal term but feeds the myths and stereotypes of rape & sexual offending and those who have been like no other. Some feel the term “victim” accurately describes their experience. I was fortunate enough to grow up in Leeds at the epicentre of lockdown due to Peter Sutcliffe…so I had the word ‘survivor’… in 1984…by curious coincidence I failed to be a “v-I-c-t-I-m” even while I was being raped. I only came to this understanding 32 years later when I reported to the Police. The officer responded to my account of the day I almost died “I have never heard anything like it! Everybody should know about this.” Time we broke the stereotypes & prejudices against those who have been raped…97.5% of them are female …not excluding transmen.
Cool okay, I accept the correction. Point otherwise still stands. You’re weaponising a group to attack the trans community, including yourself in that group does not give you the right to do so.
“Trans-” a qualifying adjective that render what follows meaningless. One might almost put it into the laws of English grammar. NB: no real respect for transgender or transsexual or nonbinary people. It is a great shame you do so much harm to their cause. Maybe that is your intention?
No in fact we are not. You are just not addressing the Maths of the situation.
Whereas you are demanding that victims be denied trauma informed care & saying they are transphobic if they *need* same sex care. The contempt for & hatred of rape survivors shown by your attitude makes you a disgusting misogynist. I bet you’re one of the “rape’s no big deal, just lie back & enjoy it” crowd.
Transphobia means nothing these days, and it’s because people like you love to brand protectors of women “transphobic”, for whatever that means anyway. No one is “trans” because you canny change gender.
Claim that the term transphobia has been diluted, followed by then saying trans people don’t exist. Bold move transphobe. And no, they’re not protectors of women, they are transphobes who are trying to use feminism as cover, harming the cause of feminism and by extension women in doing so. Absolutely disgusting how in this case they’re even trying to use victims of sexual assault as a weapon to attack trans people.
Your existence is not called into question by mere disagreement, by a refusal to accept impossibilities on command. Believe what you like personally but it’s not for you to dictate that others must believe your neo-religious claims. The pulpit-bashing and sanctimonious name-calling have lost their power to intimidate.
The only one saying “trans people don’t exist is you”. I very much think there’s some people that say they’re “trans”, but that is a metaphysical perception of oneself and should have no place in how we view the world, through the truth and reality. What’s absolutely disgusting is male sexual offenders with woman feelz being put in prisons with women who, for your record, more than half are victims of child sexual abuse AND domestic violence (9 times more and 2 times more than the average population, respectively), for which the perpetrators are mainly males. YOU are disgusting for defending male invasion of women’s dignity, trampling all over our rights. You have no clue what feminism even IS.
“The only one saying “trans people don’t exist is you” – “”No one is “trans” because you canny change gender”. I mean, really? I don’t think I need to say anything more.
The leaflet is about the needs of women and girls. Women who have suffered violent or sexual abuse can’t identify out of it. They need and are entitled to sex specific services. People with fancy identities don’t have to be at the centre of everything.
Ah I see a wave of comments from new commentators have just been approved by moderation. I strongly suspect this article has been posted in some TERF Facebook group or similar and has been brigaded. If I don’t get to you, rest assured you’re a transphobe no matter how loudly you dog whistle, and an enemy of women. Stop using rape victims as your tool to marginalise people. You do not support women, you’re actively harming the cause of feminism and you’re hurting people.
How about you stop insulting rape survivors? Where is your evidence that population transwomen sexually offend AS LAW as the exceptionally LOW rate of the FEMALE population? All the smoke & mirrors of the contortions of the English language do not change the basic Health & Safety Sexual Risk Assessment. The lies told by Brighton Survivors Network will live in infamy. Brighton resident 30 years – for the avoidance of any doubt.
I’m not engaging with this issue as there’s no point arguing with a dog whistle. The same way I wouldn’t debate crimes rates with a racist. I’m here to point out that yes, this incident was transphobia, the council is against transphobia and so the council officer was right to act as they did.
Oh no, women commenting on women’s rights, so transphobic. If you’re outnumbered, consider whether perhaps most people think you’re wrong, and reflect on why that might be.
If I went around posting this article on transrights groups I could easy not be outnumbered. Get out from behind your screen and try meeting people in person in Brighton and seeing how far these views get you.
Reducing any discussion into name-calling doesn’t help anyone or promote actual dialogue.
This was a disgraceful attempt by City Council anti-women bigots to silence people who tell the truth about so-called “trans women” – it is scientifically impossible to change sex. This is a statement of fact, not open to argument and can easily be proven with a simple genetic test. Men have an XY chromosome while women have an XX chromosome. Except, of course, these Council bigots don’t care about facts they are only interested in feelings. If you have a penis you should never be allowed to enter a women’s changing room or any other women-only space. Thank goodness employment tribunals have repeatedly made clear that believing in the scientific fact that you cannot change sex is protected under law.
But curiously it reflect trans-sympathy from 1980, (when might I ask did u catch on?) Oh and support of transgender people running Astana PRIDE 2011…do you need help with which country that is? Then a transman who accompanied me to Buck8ngham Palace & the transwomen in Poland who joined me for photos 9f the rainbow flag, I managed to get raised at the British Embassy less than a kilometre from palace of arch-homophobe President Kaczyński. Oh and remind me when did u have lunch with transgender people on the banks of Dnieper in Dnipro, Ukraine? I did in 2012…& did you listen to hear a pin drop at Moldova Pride in Chişinau to the appalling search 2 transmen were subjected to? Required despite medical letters to strip to the waist in front of half a dozen Moldovan passport officials- all male.
So if all you have got is empty insults & abuse of rape survivors with medical symptoms of female specific rape trauma, I hope for your sake there is no afterlife because eternity is a long time to burn in hell. Plenty of transwomen I know are *appalled* at what is being in their name.
So which bit of that rambling response answered my point about it being physically impossible to change sex?
Rather like the council, you appear to be struggling with a very basis question which is; ‘what is a woman?’
Hi, thank you for your reply. Woman is a gender identity often but not exclusively held by people with a female biological sex.
This is a common right-wing transphobic “gotcha” attack line, as a result, it has provoked many well written responses that go into a lot of detail, if you in good faith wish for a more fleshed out response to this question, Google “what is a woman? Response”. Not that I think you are acting in good faith however.
Ok. Thank you for the reply.
I note your stance on the issue and this is very apparent in your comments on this thread. But you do not qualify or adequately justify it. Peoples opinions are not the same as factual statements. Can you provide a universally or generally accepted source which will substantiate your view?
Hallelujah! Fact-based opinions…yes we gave had a lot of defaulting to name-calling but very little substance just the usual rapeophobia as to why survivors with medical symptoms of post traumatic stress have absolutely no right to an opinion, nhs hospital care that does not harm them & even access to the pitifully small rape crisis…& still no explanation why transwomen cant show the same decency as transmen. Could it be a female empathy “thing”?
While I’m certainly not qualified to deliver a course on the matter, I was able to find this for you. A bit of a read but it goes into academic detail about how sex and gender has come to be defined within the philosophy of feminism, and how gender is different from sex. Admittedly I haven’t read it all yet myself but I intend to do so as what I did read through so far was interesting. I hope you find it of interest also https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-gender/
Thank you for the link. The article appears to come from a reasonably reliable source.
It is a long document and there are large areas of discussion but, essentially, the distinction between sex and gender appears to form the main debate. Sex is primarily based on biological issues from birth, whereas gender includes social, psychological and behavioural issues within the determining factors. The latter is somewhat fluid whereas the latter is relatively ‘fixed’ by comparison.
Even taking into account the differences in terms of evaluation, there will likely remain a significant degree of subjectivity. With this in mind there will always be differing opinions as to if, and/or when, a trans woman should be classified as a ‘woman’. I can see why a trans woman may feel excluded if not accepted as a ‘woman’ as, from a gender perspective, she would not necessarily accept this. On the other hand, a woman requiring the personal counsel of another biological woman, (being determined purely by her biological sex), as a result of a sexual assault by a man, may well not accept a trans-woman for this purpose for reasons of the gender determination of a ‘woman’ not being adequate to provide sufficient confidence in the counsellor. This example is likely to be one of many.
This comment is not intended to provide a definitive answer to the debate but I am of the opinion that to say that there should be no distinction between a trans-woman and a biological woman (from birth), is disputable in some circumstances. Where there are grounds for reasonable dispute the discussion should not be shut down by labelling either side of the dispute a ‘phobic’.
Your comment is quite a breath of fresh air. There can absolutely be a considered and constructive way to approach the issue of access to female-only services, which in my perspective you have been the first here to demonstrate. I have refraining from discussing this as it was clearly not the objective of the leaflet in the article based on it being written in a way that was clearly specifically intended to attack transgender women, it did not bring forward the issue in a way that remained respectful to transgender women in the slightest. This is what I have taken issue with.
Thank you.
No, a woman is a human female. That means she has an XX chromosome. A so-called “trans woman” is a biological man with an XY chromosome. This is scientific fact.
“Bigots normally do a much better job than this of trying to dress up their bigotry as not being bigotry.” Like men who dress up as women and pretend to be women. If I say I identify as a dog, am I therefore a dog and I should be treated like a dog? That’s were delusion leads. Anything can end up being anything.
“Doctor, doctor I am fat.”
“In fact you are a skeletal stick, up chucking your guts after eating & malnourished… I’d say that is classic signs of anorexia & I wd like to refer you for specialist treatment so your beliefs can align with reality. You might even live a healthy life & feel better about yourself.”
Bigotry or reality?
…but the anorexic person isn’t fat though? (they just believe they’re fat through thier own delusion). Like the men dressed in womens clothing arn’t women (they just believe they’re women through thier own delusion). Is reality bigotry as well now?
Trans women – are men. Saying “trans women are women” is deeply misogynistic because it undermines and erases the unique experiences and struggles of biological (real) women. By conflating the identities of trans women (men) and biological women, it disregards the biological and social realities and specific issues faced by women, such as menstruation, sexism, pregnancy, and childbirth. This perspective argues that it prioritizes male bodies and experiences over female ones, effectively silencing and marginalizing the voices of biological women. Additionally, it can compromise the safety and privacy of women-only spaces, reinforcing patriarchal control and eroding hard-won protections and rights for women.
Saying trans women are men is about the most sexist thing a person can possibly say.
#Transwomen are #transwomen
Street-slang “trans-” “women” suggests they are subset of women.
#Onlywomenarewomen
Grooming the whole population into this street-slang “trans-” even the “gender critical” is the greatest victory of transgender extremists.
Language *does* change but the fundamental structure of grammar cannot, for the language to mean anything at all.
Serious subjects deserve serious language.
#Women are women
#transwomen are … well #transwomen
and after trawling all relevant databases I can reveal great news for transgender|nonbinary population (both sexes)…
The sexual offending of the TG|TS|NB population is no more and no LESS than that of the rest of the population… it is the same answer as #Section28 (which I lived thru as a lesbian teacher in extremely homophobic B&H)
> TG males sexually offend no more and…no LESS than the rest of the male population
> TG females sexually offend no more and…no LESS than the rest of the female population.
In #Section28 we didn’t have to explain that the sexual offending of gay men was of course vastly different to that of lesbians – female and homosexual consistent with the stark difference between male sexual offending and…female sexual offending.
How about a bit of #FairPlayforTransmen who don’t sexually offend against very much?
Tell me your chromosomes and I’ll tell you if you are a man or a woman.
Ridiculous. Women who have been sexually assaulted or raped, almost always by a male, need to be able to talk to a female. Not a man pretending to be female. How can you not see this?
Women are traumatised by their assaults, often suffer from PTSD.
It is not transphobic to expect to be able to access a women-only service if you are a survivor of male violence. Allowing anyone who identifies as a woman to access a domestic refuge is opening the door to any male predator. That is why the Equality Act allows for single-sex spaces. There are trans people who understand this and respect women, but their voices are rarely heard. There is not one domestic refuge that is for biological women only in the whole of Sussex. Everyone knows that nearly all sexual violence is committed by men. It is astonishing that more council members do not appreciate the contradiction.
Exactly. Women have a right to same sex services and spaces by law. It is misogyny to deny women this right. No one would deny the right of people who identify as “trans” to their own spaces. Anyone saying anything about women’s sex based rights gets shut down with a loud shout of “transphobia”, whatever that is. Women’s rights are for women and women are a sex class, not feelings, clothes, mode or make-up.
When women are abused and raped because they are female, who, other than the misogynistic, would deny her the right to a female only service? It beggars belief that we have come to this.
Sex: female or male – at least 99% of all human beings [including those with Variant Sex Characteristics (VSCs)] chromosomal make up is very clearly expressed in secondary physical characteristics. It is one of the most accurately determinable by all human beings,especially highly qualified & experienced medical clinicians who determine sex at birth & send this and other records of fact to the Registry Office.
There was nothing transphobic or offensive about that leaflet
The council needs to stand up for the safety and rights of girls and women.
These women are not transphobic.
There is a lot of homophobia and misogyny around though.
Pedestrianise S D ….you are SO wrong. Jog on!
They absolutely are transphobic. Misogynists too given they are attempting to pervert feminism by trying to make it a movement about transphobia.
Feminism is for women and girls. You seem confused.
Trans-women are women and even if you don’t believe that, trying to hijack feminism into a movement about transphobia damages the cause of feminism and by doing so hurts all women.
Trans-women are biological males who identity as female.
Biological males have XY chromosomes, penises, testicles and create sperms to fertilise eggs.
Biological females have XX chromosomes, vaginas and clitorises, ovaries with eggs that’s are fertilised by sperms.
You can chop bits off, take hormones to modify secondary sexual changes and grow breasts and beards, but they remain the original biological sex.
Says an individual trying to make being female a male privilege!
Wow. A survivor of sexual abuse is treated like that? Treating women and girls like they are not worthy, not allowing them single sex spaces, calling them transphobic and other names… what kind of world are we now living in? The misogyny seems to be blatant and off the scale.
Wow. A survivor of sexual abuse is treated like that? Treating them as weapons to attack trans people, using their trauma as a tool to attack a minority? What kind of world are we now living in? The transphobia seems to be blatant and off the scale.
And Heterophobia as well.
Replying to Tim:
You may need to read up on this a bit.
All discussion is good. (Minority rights do not mean that majority rights are somehow removed or diluted. )
Some of the trans activists and radical feminists also need to be more open to discussion – and that’s the true worrying aspect of the article here, that debate and discussion are being silenced.
Being PC or Woke also seems to stifle discussion sometimes.
Then again, being ‘woke’ means you have an empathy, so as to understand a difference. Nothing more. It’s a good thing, despite what you may have read.
When most of us step back from the tabloid drama, we actually want to find a way of living alongside our neighbours – a diverse range of friends and relations – who in daily life and in their concerns are much the same as we are.
I personally hate all this shouty stuff.
A bit too much empathy if you ask me, we need to base public policy-making on empirical evidence of the strongest possible sources ie Govt records…gathered at taxpayers expense. The maths and science of climate change are FAR more complicated.
Yet again people in positions of power show complete disdain for the rights and needs of women, branding any mention of those rights and needs transphobic!
Same sex/single sex services and provisions are needed, especially by those who have suffered harm at the hands of the opposite sex.
100% agree. You are not trans if you have not physically transitioned!
& you can physically transition all you like but it doesn’t change your actual sex… & it is transmen most of all who will suffer if not actually die from the wrong health care. #FairPlayForTransmen
Brighton Council behaves as if the Equality Act doesn’t apply to women. The protected characteristics in the act are equal and it is a dereliction of duty for the council to override women’s rights with their notion of trans rights. Rape survivors more than anyone will be hyper-aware of who is male and it is cruel to lie to them.
It is the law- and Labour Party policy that women should be able to access single sex rape crisis. Moreover the majority of women child sexual abuse survivors and survivors actively want this. The pan Sussex consultation- half of respondents used the ‘other’ box to ask for single sex services. To have a make cllr tell women survivors to get silent is abhorrent, retraumatising and discriminatory. Shame on them!
There is nothing transphobic about women wanting to speak to women about sexual assault.
Thank you Alison Hooper for your bravery standing up for women who have every right to expect and demand single sex care and spaces. The behaviour of the council is reprehensible and tramples over women’s rights in favour of gender ideology – shameful. Effectively women are being deprived of a service which the council is legally obliged to provide.
Transgenderism is a misogynistic child abusing cult, trying to convince us all that men with a panty fetish are the most oppressed people in society.
How is any rape survivor’s charity supposed to guarantee a ‘women’s only space’? Check the genitals of every single woman in attendance? Does that sound like something a rape victim would want? Refuse services to anyone without an ‘F’ on their birth certificate? Trans women can get those too and even then these services are attended by women often seeking anonymity.
The problem with the idea of ‘women’s only’ (IE trans-exclusionary) spaces is that the only viable way they can be policed to only allow women is by excluding anyone who looks masculine or lacks traditional feminine characteristics. That’s now a lot of the lesbian community excluded, along with any women who happen to have androgynous features or basically any woman who reminds another woman of a man. I’m sure that will go down well! “Sorry you’ve been sexually assaulted and have benefitted from the last 3 months of sessions with us, our new member Allison thinks you look a bit blokeish so you’ll have to leave”
Make it make sense.
Honesty from people of the male sex would be a good start. I have run a whole set of male characteristics hand size, grip strength, kick punch bite power and not a single one of them is reduced by any form of transition. Excluding rape survivors with female specific rape trauma from rape crisis services for women & girls is obscene. PS i have it on very good authority & was shocked to learn poor transmen are also self-excluding from female rape crisis because they don’t want to traumatise women & girls. A pity transwomen can’t learn a bit of…empathy from transmen. In 20years people will scarcely believe this happened.
Oh my, looks like someone’s aiming for gold at the Mental Gymnastics in Paris this year, go get ’em. Trans men would not attend those spaces because they’re not women, not because they’re self-excluding. The funny thing is if a trans man did attend that space, people would be flipping their shit way worse than if a trans woman (whom they likely wouldn’t even know were trans) did so.
Thanks for proving my point. What you’re saying is that any sex offender can lie their way into a rape charity because realistically there is no way to check who ‘should’ or ‘shouldn’t’ be there.
Again, you’ll have to tell us what the solution is here. ‘More honesty from trans people’ doesn’t make sense. How do we measure that? When as a society do we agree that they are being honest enough that there is no longer an issue?
The ball is in your court, if you think that women’s only spaces need to be protected then you need to provide a practical, quantifiable and easily (from the perspective of a charity) implementable solution. I’ll wait.
Dear Ginseng, I fear you have not read the thread accurately.
1) Trans-is a qualifying preposition that when used as an adjective as you have done creates a nonsense of what follows as well as being wholly disrespecting of not only transgender ppl but transsexual people with no mention of nonbinary people.
2) As I have clearly stated the evidence of @govuk shows that “transmen *are* men” the nicer kind of men who… dont sexually offend against anyone much really consistent with female patterns of sexual offending ie incredibly LOW.
3) In fact, I seem to be the only person pointing out just how unsafe a transman wd be in a male hospital space. I was appalled when a senior rape crisis expert revealed to me transmen were self-excluding from rape crisis.
4) Your resort to “trans-” people when the issue is with transwomen by virtue of their male sex…& the empirical evidence of uk govt data that shows the sexual offenders who the moj recognised to be transwomen are a 100 times more numerous than the 1 or max 2 per annum consistent with “transwomen are women”.
I referred very clearly to the honesty of people of the male sex ie transwomen, there is literally no problem with transmen who dont sexually offend against anyone least of all women with rare cases of #consent by deception impossible in..female sex segregated spaces.
The onus is upon those charged with a duty of care, and safeguarding not to mention H&S legislation to work out the sex segregation issue…honest legal documents would achieve that with GRCs rendered obsolete by the Equal Marriage Act 2015.
#Simples..
GRCs are not obsolete, you cannot change this. Birth certificates with updated genders by trans people are no different from any other birth certificates, there would be no way to police this. Requiring legal documentation from women who seek support for domestic and or sexual abuse would put an extraordinary number of women in danger and outright deny them services. That is not acceptable collateral just to stop trans women accessing the same services.
A trans woman with updated legal documentation & completed surgeries would be able to “evade” any rule you put in place to stop them accessing services. There are trans women accessing said services right now without the other women having any knowledge that they are transgender.
Thank you Alison Hooper, for your bravery you are a true inspiration. In order for women and girls who approach crisis centres we must remember why they were soo vital. Because they were single sex. Females were able to get to a place they could feel safe and free from all males. single sex care, single sex toilets, single sex prisons, single sex sports are all hard earned rights women fought for that are so carelessly being thrown away in the name of kindness! Utter madness, this is not being kind this is social contagion/ cult being let to destroy facts in education and lying to children! Leave children alone, no child is born in the wrong body and being a woman is not a feeling.
It’s not transphobic to want single sex spaces. Council should not be censoring protected characteristics.
How about we just deal with some facts:
UK Govt figures show 99% sentenced sexual offenders are male, not for 1 year, not for 5 years but for 21years solid.
Just like govt figures of Ireland (both) Scotland, Germany, Canada, USA, New Zealand Australia & Switzerland.
ONS shows 97.5% of those raped are female.
Let’s say for the sake of argument “transwomen are women” ie the *same* rate of sexual offending… as women then that would be one maximum 2 transwomen sentenced to custodial prison sentences per year. In 2022, there were 108… so not women in the sexually offending department are they?
PS but there is a place of compromise… we can all agree that “transmen *are* men” the nicer kind of men who don’t sexually offend against ..anyone much at all.
PPS the 130 female sexual offenders:
Zero sexual offences against adults
Zero sexual offences against 13-15
More often co-defendant/ secondary offender
BUT…
The overwhelming majority of those who sexually offend against those under 13 are men and sometimes boys.
Does anyone seriously believe the rate of sexual offending of transwomen drops to the exceptionally low rate of the female population? In 7 years since records began it has always been FAR higher than female.
Female specific rape trauma is a known component of Post Traumatic Stress & having studied the contents of MOJ databases, it is an absolutely rational response to how dangerous members of the male sex can be.
Let’s end the raging of one set of opinions over the other. Public policy can only be arrived at by rational analysis of the facts.
PPPS “trans-” is a qualifying preposition and make no sense by itself. I have more respect for transgender people (since 1980) than to use this street-slang. It certainly shouldnt be used in formal documentation.
I’m glad you can agree that trans-men are men. Now can you stop dog whistling and say that trans-women are women? Cheers.
I would generally agree with you about using “trans-” , in every day life it makes more sense to just call trans-women women and trans-men men, but when debating these matters, its usage is helpful for clear communication, especially where bigots are present who don’t agree that these people are women and men respectively.
Friend, OK let’s break out some cheers for finding grammatical AGREEMENT! The Quaker in me is delighted! We are very pedantic on correct use of grammar.
Could I alert you to the meaning of “compromise”. I think i can persuade sex realist women & men that we are delighted to accept that transmen are men, if you could have a word with your lot on the sexual offending the same as other males problem in accepting that “transwomen are women”. Happy to meet with peace pipes for a signing of an agreement to cease all hostilities.
Okay given that this is painting you as an extremely unsavoury character, I’ll bite, what is it that makes trans-men men but trans-women women “sex offenders”? Bearing in mind that I’m sure many women who were born male have experienced sexual abuse, far, far more so than those who would be sexual abusers.
And I don’t know what you mean by “my lot”, while clearly there is some brigading from transphobic communities going on here, even attracting foremost anti-trans campaigners such as yourself, I’m just a pretty boring uninvolved person seeking to stand up against discrimination when I see it.
Could we have the name of the offending council officer? We need to know who to complain about.
Men in dresses are men in dresses even if they fantasise about being otherwise. Don’t try and be smarter than the truth.
Nigel,
As this seems to be a female individual, can I caution you & others who might be tempted into stronger responses than are…constructive. The council worker has been brain-washed into this position &… is a human being who made a monstrous mistake. Allie Hopper – #Proud to know you! Survivors & victims of male sexual & other violence unite!
97.5 female | > 99% male
– 10 jurisdictions (11th incoming),
3 continents.
#FactsnotRhetoric #FactBasedOpinions
I thought Bella was supposed to be a human rights lawyer. It seems some women and girls are more equal than other women and girls according to the bible of Bella. Sort yourself out dear. You’re confusing people.
Ah but some “women” are more equal than others…becos they are male who are of course more important than female transmen. I say #FairPlayforTransmen who *are* men…so they should come first on each and every occasion & transwomen who gender identify *as* women should, if they are adhering correctly to…gender…ahem stereotypes shouldnt mind coming 2nd or not being mentioned at all!
More woke shenanigans presided over by bhcc.
If only they could provide the basic services they are obliged to
“Could we have the name of the offending council officer?”
Important to say it wasn’t the organising official who had greeted us and had allocated places for the event. Her agreement that it was ok for Allison Hooper’s friend to offer out leaflets was overuled by a very senior exec I later realised was Assistant Director of Policy and Communications. Hopefully the council will explain it’s policy on confiscation (especially in relation to grabbing a leaflet from someone who now regarded it as their own property). But also need an explanation of how the councils actions (endorsed by several of the councillors present) comply with the Equality Act.
be honest, most of you lot commenting aren’t from anywhere near brighton. you certainly don’t reflect the viewpoints of its constituents and you would know that if you actually lived here and left the house once in a wee while x
Catherine Glossop is the officer – her manager is Abraham Ghebre-Ghiorghis – for mail complaints can be made here – https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/feedback-about-council-services/make-complaint-using-our-corporate
Why are these comments getting approved by moderation? Half of them are blatant hate-speech which is a punishable offence laid out in the equality act. The rest are advocating harassment of counsellors.
How can you justify comments like: “Transgenderism is a misogynistic child abusing cult, trying to convince us all that men with a panty fetish are the most oppressed people in society.”
I suggest those who have keenjerk reactions to the existence of trans women, i dunno, do some research? meet some in person? if you also actually know anything about endocrinology, there’s far more to sex than what your chromosomes are. someone on hormones for a number of years is matched very evenly with those identifying with their assigned sex. i mean, you can be all aggy and angry and reactive all you like, but a fairer and more equitable society would be possible if we ya knooow had a bit of patience and sometimes listened to marginalised voices.
maybe examine why you feel the need to go online with yer online mates and type out comments like ‘men aren’t women’ and bang on about dodgy statistics and say all this lazy childish stuff (on a local news site of all places. would you not find it a little embarrassing
Like the time. They put a male sex offender in a woman’s prison in Scotland, the world has gone mad, a man in a dress ain’t no woman, no to trans rights , bunch of perverts, sick, unnatural, unhealthy, grow up . Man are men women’s are women, gays are gay, but that is it. No more perversion.
“Sex” sic offender – only ‘sex’ to the perpetrator.
Just the same old, same old prejudices & distortions about rape…. so reinforcing of the whole mess.
Also IF a sexual offender has been sentenced to prison, then surely you are telling the survivor/victim, it wasn’t rape/sexual offence, it was “sex” really?
“Sex”as an abbreviated adjective to describe the one activity it is NOT. The worst tabloidism of 1970s. “Sex” as I have taught young ppl for 40 years…with #Consent at least 125% otherwise it’s not worth having. Anything <100% is rape or sexual offending… no ifs no buts. Less than 2% of rapes result in conviction so why wd we insult those who did manage to prove rape in court? #WordsMatter these words change lives FOREVER.
Transsexual= sick and unnecessary,
???????????? why is this even allowed here? moderator reading this, seriously consider why you allow hate-speech
Thank you for supporting the case that this is transphobia.
Scott Davey, MBE LGBT here…that is just transphobic tosh & you do the justified concerns of the female population much harm, especially rape survivors with female specific rape trauma who *need* sex segregation as we now realise strengthening in LAW.
Goodness me, just how many transphobes have been given MBEs and pretend they have the support of LGBTQ+ community? Good to see that the British Empire is managing to stay classy into the 21st century.
What’s classy about insisting that female rape survivors must allow men to be in their safe spaces?
Also you do realise that there’s just one person with an MBE commenting here, and she was criticising Scott Davey? No I don’t think you do realise that, which is purely testament to your poor comprehension skills. You aren’t reading the comments properly, much the same way as you’re not reading the situation properly in the first place. Trans women are just men with a mental health issue, and real women who have been raped by men, don’t want to, and shouldn’t have to, deal with more men that have mental health issues.
The frothing screeching cultist from Seven Dials on a mad melty. Very male behaviour.
Honestly? I just thought I’d stand up for a minority by pointing out that these dog whistling transphobic actions were dog whistlingly transphobic, as seemingly backed up by every transphobe here spouting transphobic attack lines unrelated to the issue of safe spaces for women. And as a result I’ve kicked the beehive that is JK Rowling’s fan club. It’s left me bemused more than anything.
Standing up for a minority… I am *so* sorry that so many women have been raped by the members of the male sex that you dont feel we deserve “standing up” for. That’s 1-in-13 women (ONS 2023) for anyone interested in solid facts. A curiously white, curiously educated minority while according to one nhs professional of good standing the average reading age in central BN is 8 years…well below Grade D at GCSE that is generally understood to be average.
This is such a blatant dog whistle and blatant bad faith misinterpretation of my stance that I don’t think I really need to dignify it. Try supporting women in a way that does not involve a crusade against trans people. Imagine the good you might do if you decided to be a real feminist and go after the actual misogyny and sexism baked into our culture and institutions.
I’m running out of things to say that I haven’t already said. So I’d just like to add that this has been my first time debating with TERFs – I’ve thankfully led a life absent of their presence. It has been educating to learn there’s no difference between them and other bigots such as racists, homophobes and sexists; using the same playbook of dog whistles and strawman arguments to thinly veil their hatred (so much so that I’m even getting semantic satiation from saying “dog whistle”). Please have a good long look at yourself and do better. As someone with an MBE you’re supposed to be a role model, not a disgrace.
Twaddle… but you are doing a GREAT job of explaining *exactly* what the problem is.
Basically we rape survivors are sub-human and have no right to an open, nor apparently any NHS care that doesnt actively harm our health. We make reasoned rational arguments and all you have got a silly phrases like “dog-whistling”, you seem unwilling or unable to enter into serious, considered discussion. You abuse others because they have a different opinion. I am very happy that I have not abused you once in these discussions and have resorted instead to reasoned arguments. That you can call rape survivors expressing reasonable anxiety “transphobic” shows how casually that accusation is applied. I would love you to meet transgender people I have met in Moldova, Ukraine, Poland and Hungary some from as far as Kazakhstan who are decent, genuine people who are appalled at what is being done in their name. But pedestrianising Seven Dials is a GREAt idea so finally we do agree on something but I expect anything a dirty rape survivor does is for you “transphobic”. #FairPlayforTransmen who are getting very little out of this.
I have every sympathy for people who have gone through such horrible things and frankly I do indeed find it quite abusive towards me that I am being accused of saying they are “sub-human” purely because I do not think they should be used as a weapon to attack a group that on the whole want to live their life in peace but have unwillingly been dragged into a culture war by the political right in a hope of stoking social division. Yes, I am unwilling to enter into a discussion about women who were born male accessing rape crisis centres, as this is an argument that has been manufactured in bad faith (I’ll say it again, dog whistle, and I’ll also repeat what I said earlier – it’s the same way I wouldn’t debate crimes rates with a racist) in order to attack the trans community.
Let’s not lose sight of the matter being discussed: Allison Hooper claimed offence at being called transphobic. The leaflet was clearly written in a manner designed to attack trans people, this makes it transphobic. The council is anti-transphobia, so the council officer behaved appropriately. If you can read that leaflet and the comments from others here – many of them quite frankly horrific and not attempting in the slightest to hide their disdain towards trans people – and not perceive them as transphobic then I honestly don’t know what to tell you.
I would also like you to consider people in the trans community who themselves have been sexually assaulted and if they came across your opinions, how they might feel, and the anxiety and distress you might cause them about seeking support.
Bless… why on earth wd women who have almost been killed by males not have a very very reasonable fear of…males. We are still waiting for any rational argument from you… sleep well.
Bigot; a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction
It is unreasonable to ask everyone to believe that trans women are women. They are men with a mental health issue. Trans women are men.
Only males have a prostate.
Whilst a male may wish to be called a female they do need to recognize that some people will not want them to be part of their lives and they should respect that.
transphobia? in 2024? how very boring of you all
HMPS the prison service did make a mistake with allowing trans prisioners to self identify and that lead to a rape by a rapist . That has now stopped male genitals male prison.
If you still have your googlies you can identify as whatever you like but you shouldn’t be allowed into woman only spaces. It’s not a difficult concept grasp the rest is Terf nonsense
So men should not be allowed in women’s changing rooms, prisons, sports, clubs, rape support centres, health clinics and gendered religious spaces. But men should be allowed to wear a dress and make up if they want, because nobody cares.
Sounds about fair to me. If we could get rid of the compelled speech as well (insisting everyone says trans women are women) I think we would agree 😉