Council litter cops could be wrongly fining domestic cleaners and carers for putting out clients’ rubbish even though the workers were operating within the law, it emerged at a council meeting.
A resident asked Brighton and Hove City Council to explain its policy at the town hall meeting last week.
Mark Walker put his question after one of the council’s “environment enforcement officers” told cleaner Philip Winnan that he would be fined £400 for putting a resident’s rubbish in a communal bin.
Green councillor Amy Heley said: “I can confirm a household cleaner or carer would not be fined for disposing of a resident’s normal household waste in a domestic communal or kerbside bin.
“However, commercial cleaners contracted to remove waste from communal common areas in flats are not lawfully permitted to dispose of waste in domestic bins and would be subject to a fine if they did so.”
Mr Walker asked how dust and dirt produced inside a house, behind the building’s front door, could be classed as commercial waste.
He said: “The Environmental Protection Act states that the two tests are: where did the rubbish come from – part of a residential building – and who created the rubbish?
“When it’s behind a locked door and you can’t access your flat without going up the staircase, then that rubbish by definition is produced by the residents of that building. That is where I believe the council’s position is wrong.”
Mr Walker said that, having researched the Environmental Protection Act, he was concerned that a carer could face a fine for putting a face mask in a communal bin and a cleaner could be penalised for disposing of a cloth.
He said: “There are many questions for Brighton and Hove about whether the policy is proportionate.
“Is it really in the public interest to prosecute a cleaner whose contract requires him or her to hoover the doormat outside the entrance to a flat?
“It’s going to end up in the communal bins anyhow. Why does the council care so much how it gets there? Does this really make Brighton a better place?”
Mr Walker’s initial question on the council’s agenda papers last week said: “For the last 28 years Philip Winnan has been cleaning flats in Lewes Crescent and Sussex Square. He operates with his son through a small limited company called Chartsworth.
“An environmental enforcement officer has told Philip he will be fined £400 for placing household waste in the communal refuse bins.
“This is tragic for Philip’s livelihood and all paid-for carers in the city who look after older residents who will be criminalised for taking out household rubbish. Is this official council policy?”
Mr Winnan, 57, has stopped taking his customers’ rubbish to the bin after he was confronted again by a council litter cop.
He said that he had not received the most recent fine and that the council had invited him to get in touch.
Another fine mess from the Soviet style Green Party. Philip Winnan deserves an apology, as well as compensation. Are they so power crazy that they would be happy to deny this man his livelihood? A similar thing happened to a friend of mine who, when emptying his rubbish, was unaware that an envelope with his name and address on it, had fallen out. And then, out of the blue, he received a letter informing him that he had been fined £400. I hope voters will remember all the chaos the Greens have created since they have been in power, when the next election time comes around.
“Green councillor Amy Heley said: “I can confirm a household cleaner or carer would not be fined for disposing of a resident’s normal household waste in a domestic communal or kerbside bin.””
So… no they wouldn’t deny him his livelihood.
Bad luck for your friend, but if “I hadn’t noticed” was a defence, barely anyone could ever be prosecuted for littering.
Nevertheless, £400 is a ridiculously high fine – for an envelope!
The Greens need every penny they can get.
The Green party doesn’t need every penny.
Yes the Green minority council needs every penny because successive Conservative Governments have cut local government grants to the bone, while the cost of Adult Services in particular is going through the roof.
Up and down the country councils are effectively bankrupt, including Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat, SNP because of years of eye-watering Government local funding cuts.
If this Green council was solely to blame, you would expect that the problems we experience are exclusive to Brighton & Hove. They are not. What is happening here is happening right across the UK. Just google other local news!!! You’ll see the same problems up and down the country. Doesn’t matter which party runs it. Look at Northamptonshire, Birmingham, Glasgow, Croydon, Warrington. Similar problems different political parties.
Right-wing people who comment on local news websites want high quality services while wanting low taxation overall. You need to make your mind up. You get what you pay for. Low taxation, low quality services.
I fully sympathise that council tax is too high but that is because it now constitutes much more of the council’s income as successive Governments have cut their share to local funding.
Personally, I believe the Government should raise corporation tax on big transnational corporations, like Amazon and ensure they pay their fair share, which they currently avoid. If a government did that, then they could reinstate the Government’s share of local funding and councils could provide better services.
But given this government won’t even impose a 10% windfall tax on BP and Shell who have made £25 billion pound profits this year, while millions are going cold and hungry, I won’t hold my breath.
So Robert wants to tax, tax, and tax even more.
In one breath you bemoan the adjustment of income and the next you want to tax even more.
Put that to the test in elections then Robert.
The Socialist tax world you champion is not what the majority in the UK want to experience.
If they did, PM Jeremy Corbyn would be in No. 10 and I am shaking as I type that.
” The Socialist tax world you champion is not what the majority in the UK want to experience.”
The majority in the UK want something for nothing. Sadly, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
I think we’d all be laughing at them if they got the scales out and weighed your litter to determine the fine. At a certain point, you just need to say “it’s littering, this is the penalty” and stick to it.
Again, seriously unlucky for them!
Chaz says: “The Socialist tax world you champion is not what the majority in the UK want to experience.”
YouGov polling is hardly left wing. They have tracker questions. One question is “Are taxes on the rich too high or low in Britain?”.
The percentage that answer “Too Low – the rich are not paying enough and their taxes should be increased”, has never fallen below 50% and is currently 65%.
Those that think tax on the rich is too high has never risen higher than 5%.
The Financial Times is definitely not socialist. In 2015, a poll for FT showed over 50% supported windfall taxes, while only 13% were against. 61% supported wealth taxes on millionaires.
In 2018 a Survation poll for 38 Degrees, 90% of Conservative voters, *yes* Conservative voters, want Amazon to pay more tax.
I suggest the polling evidence available overwhelmingly shows that the views I expressed in the previous post to tax huge corporations and windfall taxes is a popular view, the majority of people agree with.
Most people don’t like regressive taxes but they do believe in taxation to pay for services. People want services, people want the NHS, they want libraries and care services and they have the sense that these services have to be paid for.
Those are polls Robert, polls.
There is also a poll out to reintroduce the death penalty and others more unseemly.
It just reflects the opinion of that person when they were asked.
So a general question “do you want a better NHS and people to be taxed more to pay for it” you get a good result as it is very general.
Now personalise it and say to that person it will cost you an extra 30 pounds a week and you will have a different result.
Strange that huh? No.
Elections rely on votes.